|
Post by herillusion on Feb 25, 2014 16:39:53 GMT
Maxxie it's a matter of what we see vs what's behind the scenes,actually.1 could paint lucius as an indulgent father too,just not as demonstrative..mmm i can picture that headcanon,though he might nt have regretted the dark mark right then,maybe only after he keeps trying but doesn't succeed and the true weight of the task falls over him,that he has to plan to kill another human being & has hurt other ppl in the process.also,abt being a bully..i've seen fics that say it was just that draco wanted to get harry's attention,really.and since he couldn't be friends,he'd settle for enemies cos at least that way he'd be rmbred,even if it was negatively.also,this is actually quoting from a dramione fic but "An important lesson, that people in this world seem to forget so quickly…is that no one, no one is mean without a reason. A bully merely lacks self confidence, self worth" which is not 100% true cos there are ppl who're just mean,maybe,but yeah,just sth to think abt?just cos draco seems confident doesn't mean he definitely is,really.btw your banner is awesome hehe
|
|
|
Post by drarry on Feb 25, 2014 23:04:00 GMT
I really love redemption, too (like you said, one of the reasons I love Draco / Drarry so much), but Draco was far from evil. He was just a misunderstood boy with too many hard choices thrust upon him. I love redemption too, but as much as I love Draco, let's not forget that he was a bully before being a misunderstood boy. So although I don't think Draco should get shit from Harry and his friends for being a Death Eater against his will, I think he deserves to get his ass kicked for being an insufferable brat at school Being a Death Eater was not really a choice but being a bully was and shouldn't be excused. Hmm, I didn't really phrase that how I originally wanted to. What I should have said was that Draco was a bully because he had been taught that it was okay. He was a bully because his whole family had drilled it into his head that he was better than everyone else, and that he was a leader that the lesser ones should follow. And everyone around him seemed to blindly accept that (from what we know), until he got to Hogwarts. When he asked Harry for his friendship, Draco just expected Harry to be ecstatic, and when he wasn't I can imagine Draco being very confused and insulted. So he spent the entirety of his schooling trying to best him, trying to be more popular than the great Harry Potter... I don't, of course, think that excuses the bullying in the slightest. I think bullying is absolutely awful. But I don't think he knew any better, and when he had the chance to learn better, he was rejected and became bitter about it...
|
|
|
Post by drarry on Feb 25, 2014 23:10:11 GMT
drarry i thought i'd never read it once,but i got curious,so..it's weird,but not terrible?you've never read slytherin!harry fics then..? o.o ah,sociopath/psychopath?or you mean specifically some disorder? "Dumbledore had always been extremely biased towards the Gryffindors, and had barely given Draco the time of day" >> yup,true.what's your view on dumbledore?powerful man who did the best he could or horribly manipulative?hmm yeah,i've read fics which go to the other extreme and say lucius tries to be the next dark lord though,that he only wanted draco for a heir and didn't care abt him at all..admittedly narcissa was a much more clear cut char in this sense,after the scene in DH she lied for harry to try to get to draco,and she seemingly never participated as much as lucius did in any death eater stuff cos whether she was even marked..well.i've also seen abusive!lucius and neglectful!narcissa,though,and if that works well in the context of the fic i just go with it cos i don't have anything in my brain screaming that "no i can't accept this".i think lucius would find it far harder to change than draco does,or to get forgiveness,for that matter. Nope, never read a Slytherin fic or a dark fic of any kind. I like angst, but I don't like it when angst is piled on... Ah, yeah, those words sound about right. I'm not sure about possible other ones, but I'm sure Voldemort has a lot of diagnosable issues. I'm not sure about Dumbledore anymore, in all honesty. When I first read the books and saw the movies, I loved Dumbledore. He was like this wise, magical character that it was impossible not to look up to. Even when Harry found out about his past and was angry, I never gave in and still loved him... But thinking about it now, when it comes to his treatment of the Slytherins, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't call him "horribly manipulative", per se, but I do think he could have done some things better (lets not get into the whole PS house points thing). To be honest, his treatment of Harry really wasn't all that great, either. Yeah, Lucius could go any way, really. We don't know an awful lot about him, so I guess it gives authors a lot of creative licence when working him into their stories.
|
|
|
Post by herillusion on Feb 26, 2014 5:13:57 GMT
Nope, never read a Slytherin fic or a dark fic of any kind. I like angst, but I don't like it when angst is piled on... Ah, yeah, those words sound about right. I'm not sure about possible other ones, but I'm sure Voldemort has a lot of diagnosable issues. I'm not sure about Dumbledore anymore, in all honesty. When I first read the books and saw the movies, I loved Dumbledore. He was like this wise, magical character that it was impossible not to look up to. Even when Harry found out about his past and was angry, I never gave in and still loved him... But thinking about it now, when it comes to his treatment of the Slytherins, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't call him "horribly manipulative", per se, but I do think he could have done some things better (lets not get into the whole PS house points thing). To be honest, his treatment of Harry really wasn't all that great, either. Yeah, Lucius could go any way, really. We don't know an awful lot about him, so I guess it gives authors a lot of creative licence when working him into their stories. mmm slytherin!fics don't have to be angsty though?to be it's just a huge what-if for how things could have gone..if harry had been friends with draco from the start.or does that take away the reason you like the whole pairing at all,their rivalry?issues that were sadly left alone?though i don't think being a sociopath is curable - it's just how they're born,and altogether tragic.and about dumbledore,i know right!!i didn't realise how horrible the points thing in PS till i read it in some fic - how it disregarded the slytherins' feelings and hammered in his bias against them and rewarded harry for breaking the rules,cos that's a terrible kind of moral lesson to teach someone who alr takes too much on himself instead of going to the adults for help like he should have?they say dumbledore was machiavellian,and i think that's pretty spot on.whether he really cared for harry at all or just saw him as a pawn in a war(sounds horrible but could be true,i mean he's the leader and has been thinking that way for decades before harry even came along,presumable.a horrid role to have to take up but also neccessary,bcos someone has to make the hard decisions)is debatable.i wouldn't say i like to see him bashed,but i can accept fics that write him that way.though(utterly off topic,yeah )he does give loads of great quotes.. :x
|
|
|
Post by drarry on Feb 27, 2014 11:45:30 GMT
Nope, never read a Slytherin fic or a dark fic of any kind. I like angst, but I don't like it when angst is piled on... Ah, yeah, those words sound about right. I'm not sure about possible other ones, but I'm sure Voldemort has a lot of diagnosable issues. I'm not sure about Dumbledore anymore, in all honesty. When I first read the books and saw the movies, I loved Dumbledore. He was like this wise, magical character that it was impossible not to look up to. Even when Harry found out about his past and was angry, I never gave in and still loved him... But thinking about it now, when it comes to his treatment of the Slytherins, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't call him "horribly manipulative", per se, but I do think he could have done some things better (lets not get into the whole PS house points thing). To be honest, his treatment of Harry really wasn't all that great, either. Yeah, Lucius could go any way, really. We don't know an awful lot about him, so I guess it gives authors a lot of creative licence when working him into their stories. mmm slytherin!fics don't have to be angsty though?to be it's just a huge what-if for how things could have gone..if harry had been friends with draco from the start.or does that take away the reason you like the whole pairing at all,their rivalry?issues that were sadly left alone?though i don't think being a sociopath is curable - it's just how they're born,and altogether tragic.and about dumbledore,i know right!!i didn't realise how horrible the points thing in PS till i read it in some fic - how it disregarded the slytherins' feelings and hammered in his bias against them and rewarded harry for breaking the rules,cos that's a terrible kind of moral lesson to teach someone who alr takes too much on himself instead of going to the adults for help like he should have?they say dumbledore was machiavellian,and i think that's pretty spot on.whether he really cared for harry at all or just saw him as a pawn in a war(sounds horrible but could be true,i mean he's the leader and has been thinking that way for decades before harry even came along,presumable.a horrid role to have to take up but also neccessary,bcos someone has to make the hard decisions)is debatable.i wouldn't say i like to see him bashed,but i can accept fics that write him that way.though(utterly off topic,yeah )he does give loads of great quotes.. :x Hmm, true, they don't have to be angsty... I like their pairing cause they make sense... I guess, if they had been friends from the start it wouldn't have been as surprising (the kind of surprise that you don't get to start off with, but then later realise how logical it is). Mostly I don't read stuff that doesn't fit (at least mostly) into canon. I don't know what it is, but I just love fics in which everything from the books is still there. I guess cause then it makes the relationship possible, even with canon, you know? The epilogue is easy to excuse, but I kind of have a little freak out if things are different in a fic than the books. (Especially if characters are alive that shouldn't be - part of me is glad, and another part of me is horrified). Oh gosh, I still do love Dumbledore! Thinking about it now, I think the issue with him is that everything is always for the Greater Good. He's constantly thinking about how every action will affect every situation and every person, and so he has to make tough decisions sometimes. Thinking about him like that means the points thing is really quite OOC... But other than that. I think it gives a good explanation of why he handled the Harry horcrux situation the way he did. He wanted to do the best by Harry, but he also wanted to make sure the plan wasn't ruined and that Voldemort was destroyed the right way. He wanted Harry to live out his life; knowing he was always going to die wouldn't have been the best way to grow up (admittedly, he didn't grow up that great either but knowing he was definitely going to die would have made it worse). And yes! He has some fantastic quotes! He was certainly a wise man!
|
|
|
Post by herillusion on Feb 27, 2014 14:45:59 GMT
Hmm, true, they don't have to be angsty... I like their pairing cause they make sense... I guess, if they had been friends from the start it wouldn't have been as surprising (the kind of surprise that you don't get to start off with, but then later realise how logical it is). Mostly I don't read stuff that doesn't fit (at least mostly) into canon. I don't know what it is, but I just love fics in which everything from the books is still there. I guess cause then it makes the relationship possible, even with canon, you know? The epilogue is easy to excuse, but I kind of have a little freak out if things are different in a fic than the books. (Especially if characters are alive that shouldn't be - part of me is glad, and another part of me is horrified). Oh gosh, I still do love Dumbledore! Thinking about it now, I think the issue with him is that everything is always for the Greater Good. He's constantly thinking about how every action will affect every situation and every person, and so he has to make tough decisions sometimes. Thinking about him like that means the points thing is really quite OOC... But other than that. I think it gives a good explanation of why he handled the Harry horcrux situation the way he did. He wanted to do the best by Harry, but he also wanted to make sure the plan wasn't ruined and that Voldemort was destroyed the right way. He wanted Harry to live out his life; knowing he was always going to die wouldn't have been the best way to grow up (admittedly, he didn't grow up that great either but knowing he was definitely going to die would have made it worse). And yes! He has some fantastic quotes! He was certainly a wise man! hmm well to me they'll make sense anyway,even if you don't write them canonically.maybe cos i like to see how far writers can take their imagination without making things boring..i mean even if they weren't enemies they're still the same ppl,sort of?like deep down they kind of have the same personalities.and yeah though,enemies to lovers is a much bigger change than friends to lovers..LOL i'm relieved when i see some chars alive who shouldn't be,sometimes,it's like well at least they survived in this universe if not in canon..the points thing,who knows what he was thinking?he looks like a kind old gentleman but he can be quite mysterious,really.or rather,cryptic cos even with the time turner thing he didn't tell them outright what they had to do(but then yeah obviously hermione figured it out).yes and no i guess - i mean having voldemort after him after yr must have made him not so sure he would survive the war either?like voldemort's much more powerful and has so many followers while he's still a schoolboy..but i guess yeah knowing you might and knowing you will for sure is sth else altogether.
|
|
|
Post by drarry on Feb 28, 2014 1:04:31 GMT
herillusion Hmm... Come to think of it, actually, I think it would have been really difficult for them to be friends when they were young. Draco would have tried to be the leader and Harry would have refused to take any of his crap. It's only when they're a bit older, when they lose a little bit of their stubborn-ness that they could develop a friendship, in my opinion anyway. But yes, I like the leap from enemies to lovers And I think Dumbledore not telling them outright what they're meant to do was his way of teaching them. Having to use their brains, think for themselves... No, he wasn't sure he would survive the war, but he certainly hoped he would. He didn't know he was doomed from the start...
|
|